One of the hallmarks of Asperger’s Syndrome (AS) is that individuals often have strong points of view, and they have trouble seeing other points of view as equally valid. Most see themselves as extremely logical and therefore right in their conclusions; for them, the points of view of others can seem illogical. This is often perceived by neurotypicals as being oppositional, stubborn or lacking empathy.
What’s interesting is that often when people think they’re being logical, research shows that their emotions can be driving their cognition. Emotions are frequently substantial influences in people’s thinking without their knowing it. In his eloquent writing for LinkedIn, Kristopher Jones makes clear what is my experience as well:
People with AS can have very strong feelings.
Peter Salovey and Marc Beckett of the Center for Emotional Intelligence at Yale University www.ei.yale.edu have done compelling research on the topic of feelings influencing thinking. In one study by Brackett and his colleagues on the influence of teacher emotion on grading practices, they took a large sample of middle school teachers. Using techniques demonstrated to be effective to induce a positive or negative frame of mind, they had half the teachers influenced to be positive and half to be negative. All were given the identical essay to grade. The scores given by the two groups differed by 1 to 2 grades, yet all of them were certain that mood had nothing to do with their scoring.
Why is this significant for people with AS?
The Dialectical Behavior Therapy model of cognition suggests that we all have a logical mind and an emotional mind.
It’s where these two overlap (are integrated) that genuinely “wise” thinking can get done. Otherwise, we’re unaware (like the teachers) of the extent to which emotion that hasn’t been acknowledged is dictating what seems to be logical thinking. Most AS/NLD individuals I know operate out of one kind of mind or the other, but fail to meaningfully integrate the two.
I worked with a young man who was very reactive to what he perceived as criticism. A person who criticized him at a temporary job became someone he never wanted to see again; in fact, the entire setting became somewhere to be avoided.
He felt this was logical – you don’t go where you are treated badly.
He also reacted the same way in his personal life. His girlfriend’s parents made a remark he considered critical, so he began avoiding them or going to their home. It made sense that if they didn’t like him, he’d stay away. Also, he worked for a time in a program he’d attended as a lower-level administrator. He felt the director was unfriendly and at least one staff member didn’t think he was doing a good job. He was actually demoted to doing research. Sometimes, people were rushed and didn’t seem to have time for him. He avoided spending time with staff and actually avoided saying hello to anyone.
With work, he was able to begin to integrate his feelings about these events into a more realistic “big picture.” In the office, he realized that he’d gotten a lot of positive feedback, and he was dwelling on the one negative person he encountered. The office had asked him to return several times, so the estimation of his work was actually good.
His girlfriend’s parents had welcomed him into their home many times before the incident that offended him, and the remark was actually a fairly minor incident in a longstanding positive relationship.
He began to see how his “file cabinet” (his metaphor) was filled with files of resentment and judgments that he never threw away. He’d pull them out every time the person or setting in question came up. He kept them fireproof and indestructible.
In the school, the director turned out to be going through a personal medical crisis. Her lack of warmth had more to do with her anxiety than with him. The staff member trying to instruct him was friendly, and in fact my client was inexperienced and not that good at administration at that point. His detail focus made him an excellent researcher, and when they had suggested he get more training in administration in a junior role, he had refused. When he actually spent time in the lunchroom, he found that the other staff to be friendly.
Over time, he opened up the “files” and took out a few pages at a time. He came to realize that the people and places weren’t all bad.
In fact, some had been predominantly supportive. And while a few of the people who criticized him were nasty – they had their own problems – most of the others were reacting themselves to understandable circumstances, or trying to help him.
He began to recognize that some of his “logical” assumptions and decision-making were actually influenced by his feelings.
The bottom line is that all of us, neurotypicals and divergent thinkers, need to check in with our emotions to think genuinely logically.
Most of us are fairly unfamiliar with our moods. The Center for Emotional Intelligence has actually created an app for knowing and working with emotions. It’s called “Mood Meter”. It lets people plot their moods based on energy level and positivity. The Mood Meter offers adjectives to describe moods, which helps fine-tune the plotting. It then offers strategies if people want to change their moods to become more positive. Whether one uses this tool, journaling, mindfulness meditation, or other ways of reflecting, understanding and integrating thinking with emotion makes for better, wiser thinking.
*Brackett, Floman, Ashton-James, Cherkasskiy & Salovey, 2013, Teachers and Teaching: Theory and Practice, 19:6, 634-646, DOI:10.1080/13540602.2013.827453
By Marcia Eckerd, PhD
This article originally appeared on PsychCentral.com “Are People with Aspergers/NLD as Logical as They Think?”. All rights reserved. Reprinted here with permission.
Dr. Marcia Eckerd has been in practice as a licensed psychologist since 1985. I am on the CT ASD Advisory Council and the Clinical Advisory Committee of the Aspergers/Autism Association of New England, as well the professional advisory board of Smart Kids with LD. Aspergers101 is honored to offered the knowledge and experience of Dr. Eckerd through her informative blogs!
Aside from its grammar, logic is:
a. memory access of confirming or conflicting facts (crystallized knowledge)
b. pattern recognition (fluid intelligence)
Some people with Apserger’s may do these these things particularly well.
The issues tend to be:
a. People with Asperger’s are exactly as prone to knowledge deficits as everyone else. In other words, not having all of the variables and, worse, not being aware of that being a possibility.
b. Higher (especially fluid) intelligence giving Asperger’s people a false sense of certainty in their logic and in spite of knowledge gaps.
Assuming that they are non-emotional enough about the problem to begin with. Being fundamentally biased on issues can arise from knowledge gaps in related issues, among other causes (personal experience, etc).
ASD subjects show a reduced susceptibility to the framing effect.”
(De Martino et al., 2008)
and:
“The findings presented here suggest that the conjunction fallacy is less likely to occur with autistic participants.”
(Morsanyi et al., 2009)
https://autism-advantage.com/autistics-don-t-do-heuristics.html
“ASD subjects show a reduced susceptibility to the framing effect.”
(De Martino et al., 2008)
and:
“The findings presented here suggest that the conjunction fallacy is less likely to occur with autistic participants.”
(Morsanyi et al., 2009)
Hi Carol,
So pleased to hear a little bit of your story. I too was married to an aspie for 10 and been together for 18. He is an amazing man and till this I wander if made the wrong decision to divorce. During my time with him while married , there was plenty of time where I felt like questioning the sense my abnormal behavior. A lot of times he pointed them out like I was some cynical, inconvenience to him and our children. In the same way he acted with me, I have seen him treat another’s the same and would say stuff like to get the f**ing out of the way so he can be productive. Many times I felt like I was in his way so he isn’t successful because of me, that he isn’t living to his expectations that would allow him to grow in life and financially be stable because of me. He can be cruel when I happen to feel sad or down and say things like “don’t be sad then”. I wish life wasn’t as diffcult for both of us and settle our difference. He is self diagnosed and he says he always knew he was different. We found out at the end of our marriage a few month before our divorce because things didn’t make sense to me. I remember feeling like I know I am a horrible person, but I can’t be all and everything he says I am. At the end of the day no matter how “good he thinks he is”, “logical”, and some other terms he uses to make him feel like I am beneath him, it take two make wrong in a marriage. The emotional abuse over the years it has on me left me with questing who I am as individual. With that being said, He is a great father to his children and I wish him nothing but great thing in his future. I am one lucky woman to keep him for as long as I could. I just wish I was more important to him as much as he is too me.
Blessings,
Hi Carol,
So pleased to hear a little bit of your story. I too was married to an aspie for 10 and been together for 18. He is an amazing man and till this I wander if made the wrong decision to divorce. During my time with him while married , there was plenty of time where I felt like I was question the sense my abnormal behavior. A lot of times he pointed them out like was some cynical, inconvenience to him and our children. In the same way he acted with me, I have seen him treat another’s the same and would say stuff like to get the f**ing out of the way so he can be productive. Many times I felt like I was in his way so he isn’t successful because of me, that he isn’t living to his expectations that would allow him to grow in life and financially be stable. He can be cruel if I happen to feel sad or down and say things like “don’t be sad then”. I wish life wasn’t as diffcult for both of us and settle our difference. He is self diagnosed and he says he always knew he was different. We found out at the end of our marriage a few month before our divorce because things didn’t make sense to me. I remember feeling like I know I am a horrible person, but I can’t be all and everything he says I am. At the end of the day no matter how “good he thinks he is”, “logical”, and some other terms he uses to make him feel like I am beneath him, it take to make wrong in a marriage. The emotional abuse over the years it has on me left me with questing who I am as individual. With that being said, He is a great father to his children and I wish him nothing but great thing in his future. I am one lucky woman to keep him for as long as I could. I just wish I was more important to him as much as he is too me.
Blessings,
Hello Sorrane,
You’ve still believing your husband’s assessment of you as “less than”. That assessment is false. He’s using what he believes to be his superior logic (with zero emotional intelligence and severely restricted logic for that matter) to decide your value. I hope you can recover from those 18 years with his emotional abuse and neglect. Find new friends who value you and develop your strengths. Ignore him and make sure he isn’t treating the kids the same way. They may be too loyal to him to let you know and probably normalize his abnormal thinking.
That said, I don’t think all people with aspergers are malicious, but in your case, yes.
Society at large says to keep “fireproof files of negative acts” of people. In fact, primates demonstrate “scorekeeping” and rather than “stay away” they “get back at” the other primate that dealt harshly with them.
As to scorekeeping, people keep criminal records of their past their whole life, and that affects who will and wont hire them, and it even affects what kind of insurance rates they can get, among other things.
I have Aspergers, and am quite logical, rational, and cool headed, most of the time. Only time I get emotional, freak out, or become reactive is when my life is being threatened in any way. Like that time my twin brother locked me in a pantry and turned off all the lights when I was 14.
I’m very analytical, probably too much. Question why things are a lot, and people don’t like that. I also have very unorthodox ideas and theories about things, which don’t really match up with what people believe. Black sheeps and free spirited people are not well liked in this neurotypical society which runs on “herd mentality” and strict conformity to “their” rules and rituals. They are the majority of the people on this planet, and it would be hard to get them to accept that some people do things a bit differently than they do.
Which is kind of why some people claim that having a friend or relationship with someone who has Aspergers is different or more difficult than someone who is the same as you. Doesn’t always work out.
I am married to a man that I am positive has Asperger’s. I”v read several books and all information leads to his character. He has a good heart but is not
east to live with. reading articles from time to time helps to refresh my thoughts.
Those of us with Asperger’s do think very logically. It might seem like we do not to a Neurotypical but that is only because their brains have not evolved to the point where they truly understand logic. They are the ones who think emotionally and think they are being logical. You simply need to look at the history of the Human race to know that is true.
As a fellow Aspie, I agree. I’m actually looking for like-minded individuals with Aspergers who would be interested in getting in contact and discussing these things and more. I wanted to send a pm but for some reason this comment section does not have such function for non-site members.
I wish I could talk to a aspie man to learn more of how to deal and communicate with my non diagnosed aspie husband we butts head terribly cause he so stubborn,unable to listen and understand what I’m saying and never seems to use logic when making decisions..his impulsiveness cause money issues and he never complete many tasks he starts..quite frankly I feel like I’m talking to an irrational child most of the time..I need help connecting our lines of communications..I’m loosing my mind..please help. Linda
Hi Linsey, I’m an Aspie who has put a lot of time into self awareness.
I would recommend a particular argument to make to your husband or for everyone else, your coworker/friend/partner.
There is a quote to start with, “A madman is not a man who’s lost his reason, a madman is a man who’s lost everything but his reason.”
– 90% of a thought is emotional content regardless of the person.
– The human mind evolved to handle emotional content.
– That evolution created mental filters in our brains to streamline the multiprocessing which leads to complexity and therefor ability.
– (Finally the point) people with Aspergers are not more evolved than Neurotypicals, we have less filters, more trouble regulating our feelings, more difficult lives, most importantly more suffering.
A quote to end with, “Intelligence creates beauty.”
With due respect, I can’t think of many more flawed perspectives on the issue. You are falling into the exact trap of which you are accusing NTs.
The fact is that you can’t possibly empathize with cognition that is much different than your own, and especially not as any IQ gap closes or surpasses your own. Trying to empathize with how differing people think is one of the more impossible tasks in the professions. Think to how virtually every articulated description of what it is to have Asperger’s fails to encapsulate you.
The closest that we can come is for individuals with significantly lower IQs. And even then, for someone with Asperger’s I’d wager that to be touch and go within at least 2 SDs. For example while my fluid intelligence is likely much higher, my measured IQ generally hits around 130. Yet, I wouldn’t profess to be able to empathize with how someone at the 100 median “logically” processes spoken language. Given that they will likely process it faster than I do.
That assessment of neurotypicals is false. Most NTs have a balance of both emotional intelligence and logical thinking. Are you saying NTs are incapable of thinking logically because they’re able to assess emotions and incorporate that information into decisions? That sounds like an ego trying to do some gaslighting. So apparently emotion (ego protection) does play a role in asperger judgment.
Would you let me know where I can get advice? I hired someone in a key role who I did not know has Asperger’s syndrome. As an employer I need assistance. As I encountered the limitations and searched for answers, I realized the symptoms are characteristic of Asp. I believe the person has known the diagnosis but concealed it. This has caused disruption because I have to pick up the workload and others simply quit.
I appreciate your reaching out for advice. First, your employee may not be concealing a diagnosis. Research shows that many high functioning adults have never been given an Asperger’s diagnosis; some are not self aware of behaviors that might be problematic. It sounds like you want to present this information to your employee for the good of the workplace, and that you would like to do it in a sensitive way. It can be helpful to know that your employee might take your words very concretely, so making inferences will not be helpful. One needs to be clear and concrete. It would be helpful to acknowledge the employee’s strengths, contributions and value to the company, and then to discuss specific behaviors that create problems for the team. It’s important not to have a laundry list of complaints, but to open a supportive dialogue, such as, “I notice it is difficult for you to take in new ideas from teammates” or whatever a key problem might be. The label is less important than the behavior and doesn’t need to come first.Current thinking about Asperger’s is that it is a different way of processing, and probably underlies some of your employee’s strengths on the job: determination, high standards, attention to detail, depth of understanding. If your employee is not doing all expected of him or her, one aspect of Asperger’s is that people don’t make inferences, so unless expectations are stated clearly and concretely, it’s not clear what is to be done. Other staff might also need to be educated if a person has Asperger’s traits if they are responding to traits that don’t interfere with job performance, such asa lack of social skills that are comfort related: “John has traits that make it difficult for him to socialize, or to know what behavior bothers you. It’s not really necessary to be social, and you can tell him clearly that you understand he doesn’t intend to bother you, but this behavior (expressed clearly, concretely and non-judgmentally) is difficult for me and I’d prefer you not do it.” There’s a useful article online: https://livingautism.com/possible-colleague-aspergers-syndrome/.
I know many aspies, being in STEM and a former STEM prof. They always think they are the smartest person in the room and always correct, even when all evidence points to the contrary. It is part of the syndrome to be like this for many of them. Many average people will be overwhelmed by the barrage of rote memorization and utilization as aspie will display for their special interest and that, along with them fitting the “he’s so smart he has no common sense” trope, will convince them the aspie is some true genius. It’s hilarious when average people will tell me “Aspie Adam over there isn’t like us, he’s really smart!”….not knowing they are talking to someone that happens to act normally and also has a BS, MS, and PhD all earned on full academic scholarships/fellowships with STEM fields.
I think that problem you describe is not one of logic, but of making the wrong assumptions about people. That makes sense, given that in ASD there is difficulty “reading” social interactions. Perhaps the assumption is that people are similar and consistent – which of course they are not.
When I call myself “logical”, I mean that I can proceed from premise to conclusion in a rational fashion. People’s premises may vary for different reasons. Where the outcome (conclusion) does not preclde function or negatively impact others, I see no need to justify the soundness of my assumptions. Surely most people don’t walk around constantly wondering if they are making accurate observations about the world around them. I see no reason why individuals with ASD should be held to a different standard.
I think there is plenty of variation in both neurotypical and aspies on the logic front! Although on balance as a collective unit I think humans on are much less logical!
Autism is very heterogeneous and I think your generalision is wrong when you say “Most see themselves as extremely logical and therefore right”
I do think there is some truth to fact SOME autistic individuals can display very logical traits BUT this isn’t all autistic people. There was a interesting study done by Kings college recently that peaked my interest (see attachment) showing studies when aspies where less affected by framing affects.
I process information and language differently …. For someone like myself (2 masters degrees) who is very skeptical I can ruminate on something and think it though very deeply before coming to a conclusion. I frequently make decisions by hyperfocusing on the minutiae and testing my thoughts with observations and experiments. I like structure & I notice detail and I’m less prone to group think because I don’t automatically attune myself to your wave length
… there’s no doubt we have strong feelings but then many on the spectrum blunt those feelings and have alexthymia. I learnt long ago that jumping up and down in a meltdown doesn’t lead to successful conclusions even if you feel like you are going to expolode.
I agree frequently aspies get it wrong and hold stong opinions BUT I think this stereotype is often a product of slower development and but also the fact aspies are frequently less influence by social herding effects.
With the right support some aspies can become first principle logicians for that very reason..they sit to the side of society never quite fitting in which can allow them to ask questions others cannot . They process information in smaller chunks and have a need to look at operations and logic from a different angle! The ability to obsess and ruminate also help!
https://www.kcl.ac.uk/ioppn/news/records/2016/October/People-with-autism-more-likely-to-'follow-their-heads-and-not-their-hearts‘.aspx